# Lehre und Wehre_St. Louis Missouri_Juni 1856_S172
# AI translation — CHI Digital Archive (demonstration)

172 "In, With, and Under."

...and quite recently the editor of the "Reformed Church Journal" of Chambersburg, Pa., namely in the issue of May 1 of this year, has written: "The Reformed, too, believed then, and still believe today, in the reality and truthfulness of the presence of those heavenly gifts in the sacramental act, and we do not think that a single preacher among us could be found who does not believe this honestly and from the heart — which can by no means yet be said of the American-Lutheran Church —."*)

Now, as far as we are from wishing to press upon anyone an error which he himself rejects, even if it could be shown to follow necessarily from other errors that he holds; for, in our conviction, such logical consequences should then be used only to convince a person of, and to deter him from, the error from which something recognized as erroneous by both sides follows**) — so far is it from being the case here that we are dealing with mere logical consequences; rather, it is pure self-deception.

However much Calvin, too, spoke of a real presence and of a

...nalistic manner fully on display. Thus Zwingli writes, for example, in his treatise "On True and False Religion," fol. 210: "The words ('this is my body') are to be taken thus: this, namely what I bid you eat, is a symbol, or signifies my body which is given for you. We do not wish, however, that anyone should take offense at these anxious investigations concerning the words; for we do not rely on them, but on this word alone: 'the flesh profiteth nothing.'" (Zwingli thus applies these words blasphemously to Christ's flesh! — while he himself confesses that he pays no heed at all to the actual words of the Sacrament!) Further down, Zwingli writes again, fol. 212: "The Lord's Supper, then, is nothing other than a remembrance." Indeed, even earlier, at fol. 206, Zwingli had written in the same place: "We believe that those, too, are not to be listened to who, seeing that the aforesaid (Lutheran) view is not only crude but also godless and frivolous, set up the following opinion: 'We do indeed eat the true and bodily flesh of Christ, but spiritually.' For they do not yet see that this — being a body, and being eaten spiritually — cannot coexist; for body and spirit are so different that, whichever of the two one takes, it cannot be the other... To eat bodily flesh spiritually is nothing other than to maintain that spirit is what body is." — The words cited read, in Latin, in Zwingli's treatise, thus: "Verba sic accipienda sunt: hoc, quod scil. edere jubeo, symbolum est aut significat corpus meum, quod pro vobis traditur. Volumus autem, quod in his anxiis verborum excussionibus nemo se offendi patiatur; non enim eis nitimur, sed hoc uno verbo: caro non prodest quincquam. — Est ergo coena Dominica nihil aliud, quam commemoratio. — Nec eos audiendos putamus, qui dum dictam opinionem non solum rusticam, sed etiam impiam et frivolam esse vident, sic decernunt: edimus quidem veram corporeamque Christi carnem, sed spiritaliter. Nondum enim vident, simul stare non posse, corpus esse et spiritaliter edi; sic enim diversa sunt corpus et spiritus, ut, utrumcunque accipias, non possit alterum esse... Unde corpoream carnem spiritaliter edere, nihil est aliud, quam, quod corpus sit, spiritum esse adserere."

*) It is, indeed, most disgraceful for the so-called American-Lutherans that even the Reformed here feel shame at their crass unbelief. — L. u. W.

**) For that from which something erroneous necessarily follows must itself necessarily be something erroneous, since truth is one, and only what is true can follow from it.